Health Insurance for Children
  • scrubblescrubble October 2007
    so what do people think about this?

    QUOTE
    House Defies Bush and Passes Insurance Bill
    By ROBERT PEAR

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 25 — Once again defying a veto threat from President Bush, the House on Thursday passed a bill to provide health insurance for 10 million children. But supporters did not have enough votes to override the promised veto.

    The bill was approved by a vote of 265 to 142, less than the two-thirds needed to override a veto.

    Last week, when the House considered a similar bill vetoed by Mr. Bush, supporters fell 13 votes short of the number needed to override. The roll calls are not directly comparable because several lawmakers were absent on Thursday, many of them helping constituents cope with the California wildfires.

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the latest vote was “a step forward” toward the goal of insuring millions of children from low-income families.

    But the gains were not immediately evident in the roll call. Of the Republicans who voted against the bill last week, none voted for the new version. And one Republican who supported the old bill, Representative Vernon J. Ehlers of Michigan, voted against the new one, citing concerns that the measure had been brought up on short notice, without enough input from Republicans.

    Senate Democrats said they expected to take up the new bill and pass it next week. The House majority leader, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland, said it was at least conceivable that the bill could be amended in the Senate, to meet some Republican concerns.

    If some version of the new bill is approved by Congress and vetoed by Mr. Bush, and if the House again sustains his veto, Democrats said they might extend the existing children’s insurance program through next summer. They could then schedule a vote on the issue in September or October, in hopes of inflicting maximum political damage on Republicans just before the 2008 elections.

    The bill passed on Thursday by the House, like the one vetoed by Mr. Bush, would add $35 billion to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, providing a total of $60 billion over the next five years.

    Ms. Pelosi said the bill was a test of the nation’s values and priorities. “To be a great nation,” she said, “we have to take care of the health of our children. It should almost go without saying, but it doesn’t. There is every compassionate, humanitarian, motherly, fatherly and family reason to be for this legislation. It also makes good economic sense.”

    Healthy children become productive adults, the speaker said.

    Supporters of the new bill said it addressed all the major concerns that prompted Republicans to oppose the earlier version. The measure, they said, would end coverage of childless adults, ban coverage of illegal immigrants and generally prohibit states from covering children in families with incomes above three times the poverty level — $61,950 for a family of four.

    Ms. Pelosi said the restrictions on adults, illegal immigrants and high-income families were clear in the first bill and “are even clearer in the second bill.”

    But Mr. Bush said his concerns had not been addressed “in a meaningful way.” He derided the new bill as “more of the same,” and many Republican lawmakers said the changes were insignificant.

    “The new bill puts lipstick on a sow,” said Representative Thomas M. Reynolds, Republican of New York. “Today is raw politics — trotting out a vote just for the sake of a vote.”

    The House Republican leader, Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, said, “This is nothing more than a political game, getting ready for the next election.”

    Representative Ginny Brown-Waite, Republican of Florida, said the child health program would still be a “magnet for illegal aliens.”

    Representative Mike Rogers, Republican of Michigan, said children from affluent families could still qualify for benefits because states, in determining eligibility, could ignore or disregard part of a family’s income.

    Democrats said such concerns were unwarranted.

    In general, the bill says, federal money cannot be used to cover children in families with incomes above three times the poverty level. New Jersey, the only state that now covers children in such families, would be allowed to continue doing so for three years — and perhaps longer, if it also covered more of its poorest children.

    Senator Robert Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey, hailed this provision, saying it was needed “because of the high cost of living in the state.”

    The child health program is intended for families who have too much income to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to afford private health insurance. It now covers 6.6 million children, and the new bill, like the original one, would add nearly four million children to the rolls.

    Throughout the day, House Republicans urged Democrats to put off a vote on the new bill to next week. Ten of the 26 House members who did not vote Thursday are from California, and 8 of those 10 are Republicans.

    Mr. Hoyer said the absent lawmakers would not have changed the outcome of the vote.

    Forty-three Republicans voted for the bill; one Democrat voted against it.

    Besides complaining about the timing of the vote, Republicans voiced several other objections.

    Representative Tom Price, Republican of Georgia, said the bill still called for “a massive tax increase.” The federal excise tax on cigarettes would be increased to $1 a pack, which is 61 cents more than the current levy.

    And Representative Pete Sessions, Republican of Texas, said that under the new bill, as under the old one, two million people would lose or drop private health insurance coverage and enroll in the expanded federal program.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/washingt...amp;oref=slogin
  • carto0ncarto0n October 2007
    im going to retract my previous statement and not bother debating this issue...for the simple fact that it could get into a heated debate that i choose not to get involved with.
  • redboneredbone October 2007
    How about we completely remove the third wheel that is insurance companies for children. My basic opinion on this is that all children should be taken care of for free. Having to toggle through insurance companies just increases the total money spent on the main goal here, medical help and/or attention. Instead of the general population having it, insurance companies are loaded and have a reputation for not putting out when they need to in the first place. What if we increased tax a bit and made all health and medical care for children free, so then they didn't have to have insurance coverage.

  • JeddHamptonJeddHampton October 2007
    QUOTE (redbone @ Oct 27 2007, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    How about we completely remove the third wheel that is insurance companies for children. My basic opinion on this is that all children should be taken care of for free. Having to toggle through insurance companies just increases the total money spent on the main goal here, medical help and/or attention. Instead of the general population having it, insurance companies are loaded and have a reputation for not putting out when they need to in the first place. What if we increased tax a bit and made all health and medical care for children free, so then they didn't have to have insurance coverage.


    Are the doctors going to be paid for their services?

    I'm confused.
  • redboneredbone October 2007
    Yeah they would, maybe not quite as much, but they would still be paid, just by the government instead of by individual people. And it would be just for children. The system as it is now would be the same for adults.
  • JeddHamptonJeddHampton October 2007
    Isn't that basically what the bill does?

    It sets up a health insurance for children that is run by the government. So that the government is paying the doctors to take care of kids.
  • waterxm04waterxm04 October 2007
    QUOTE (Jedd @ Oct 28 2007, 08:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Isn't that basically what the bill does?

    It sets up a health insurance for children that is run by the government. So that the government is paying the doctors to take care of kids.


    yep
  • The government has no constitutional right to do this.

    If a child needs healthcare, the parents should provide it. If that is not an option, private charity or doctor's charity(like Ron Paul does) should deal with it. Even though I think all people SHOULD have health care, I don't think it is a right that should be provided by the Government by any means.
  • flaveflave October 2007
    QUOTE (Working Class Hero @ Oct 29 2007, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The government has no constitutional right to do this.

    If a child needs healthcare, the parents should provide it. If that is not an option, private charity or doctor's charity(like Ron Paul does) should deal with it. Even though I think all people SHOULD have health care, I don't think it is a right that should be provided by the Government by any means.

    I understand that the constitution doesn't provide the government the right to give health care to children, but if we're capable of doing it, shouldn't we? Some people are simply unable to provide health care for their families. I see no reason why, as decent human beings, we wouldn't be willing to share a bit of our money to provide a person's child with adequate medical care if we're able.

    The simple fact of the matter is, in my opinion, that health care for children is a much better way to spend money than some rich guy's next mercedes. If those of us that make a decent living have to spend a little less of our disposable income so that impoverished kids can see a doctor when they need to, I'm all for that.

    Common decency isn't spelled out in the constitution either, but I'd like to think it's something we're willing to accept as a necessity for respectable society.
  • carto0ncarto0n October 2007
    QUOTE (fade @ Oct 29 2007, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    I understand that the constitution doesn't provide the government the right to give health care to children, but if we're capable of doing it, shouldn't we? Some people are simply unable to provide health care for their families. I see no reason why, as decent human beings, we wouldn't be willing to share a bit of our money to provide a person's child with adequate medical care if we're able.

    The simple fact of the matter is, in my opinion, that health care for children is a much better way to spend money than some rich guy's next mercedes. If those of us that make a decent living have to spend a little less of our disposable income so that impoverished kids can see a doctor when they need to, I'm all for that.

    Common decency isn't spelled out in the constitution either, but I'd like to think it's something we're willing to accept as a necessity for respectable society.



    good idea in theory...



    just because we're able to, doesn't always mean we should. this applies to everything. providing free healthcare to children would be great, and i think we are able to do it.....but we shouldnt. we shouldnt because there is always some in the bunch that will mistake the kindness of others as a weakness and take advantage of that. those people ruin it for everyone, so why bother.

    its like the welfare system....great idea. but look how degenerates molest the system and mooch off of it for months/years...its fucking sickening. why does our government, and us taxpayers need to be upstanding citizens and sacrifice for people who arent willing to do the same. you give a little, you take a little....that is how it should be, but when you seem to give and give and give.....and never see anything in return its time to call it quits. it should be on the shoulders of the parents to take care of their own children, and themselves. get out there and get a job, better yourself, and become a decent member of this society.

    but what about the people who work hard but just cant make ends meet? stop having kids you cant afford to take care of. take advantage of the opportunities out there to maybe enroll in some night classes, better yourself and get a better job.
  • redboneredbone October 2007
    First of all I think it would be much more difficult to molest something such as healthcare than welfare. Second of all, its nice to assume that people are responsible enough to do things like enroll in night classes and get better jobs, and stop having kids, but they just aren't. What are we gonna do, make people take a test to have kids, and if you don't meed the monetary and other test requirements to have a kid you aren't allowed? If we pull the plug on healthcare, its just going to make more sick kids. I don't think we need any more of that.
  • BudweiserBudweiser October 2007
    Hummmm....Bush veto's the SCHIP bill because of its broad spending, and entitlements to the middle class. So.....Congress sends him a new bill that would cost even more?????

    I sure hope Hillary gets elected president, so these huge spending bills just sail right on thru. I will enjoy watching taxes, cost of living, and inflation eat away at my retirment nest egg.

    At what point will I decide to just give up and become a ward of the government? Sit in my subsidized housing, and just play BF2, watch TV, run to the store with my food stamps, then to the food shelf for more freebies. Knock up some 16 year olds to keep the systems working properly (mine and the governments). Dont need insurance, dont need to pay utilities, get a free bus pass to go to the store......and best of all I can start to enjoy the company of the people I will encounter instead of despising them.
  • carto0ncarto0n October 2007
    QUOTE (redbone @ Oct 29 2007, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    First of all I think it would be much more difficult to molest something such as healthcare than welfare. Second of all, its nice to assume that people are responsible enough to do things like enroll in night classes and get better jobs, and stop having kids, but they just aren't. What are we gonna do, make people take a test to have kids, and if you don't meed the monetary and other test requirements to have a kid you aren't allowed? If we pull the plug on healthcare, its just going to make more sick kids. I don't think we need any more of that.


    where there is a will...there is a way.

    and your right, it is nice to assume people are responsible enough to take care of themselves....im well aware they aren't and thats because we keep giving them reasons to not step up. there are many things we can do, and the first would be to cut off the hand that is feeding them. without all of these ridiculous programs for lazy people, you take them away and force them to do things for themselves....if they choose to live in a cardboard box rather than go out and get a job...so be it, if they want to have 500 kids and they cant afford one.....then those kids will suffer at the hands of their parents ignorance. is it right? no. is it fair? no. but when these people have kids knowing they cant afford it, and rely on the government and every tax paying citizen to take care of them it will just fuel the problem....and giving more free things to people who do not deserve it isnt right. or if you think free healthcare is a great idea....like i do, i honestly think it would be great to have in this country, but when you put limitations on it and single out individuals who can, and cannot recieve it.....that is the problem. if the government can provide to some, it can provide to all.
  • BillBill November 2007
    QUOTE (Budweiser @ Oct 30 2007, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hummmm....Bush veto's the SCHIP bill because of its broad spending, and entitlements to the middle class. So.....Congress sends him a new bill that would cost even more?????



    While simultaneously asking for almost $100 billion more in funding for Iraq, in addition to the money that is already budgeted for Iraq this year.

    Yes, we should obviously use broad spending half way around the world in Vietnam 2, but fuck kids... Emirite?
  • QUOTE (Bill @ Nov 1 2007, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
    While simultaneously asking for almost $100 billion more in funding for Iraq, in addition to the money that is already budgeted for Iraq this year.

    Yes, we should obviously use broad spending half way around the world in Vietnam 2, but fuck kids... Emirite?


    I say fuck 'em both. They're equally unconstitutional.
  • redboneredbone November 2007
    Fair enough cartoon, I can agree with that.

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